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Navajo Indian on Horseback in Monument Valley - Richard Oesterling Leica M2 & 35mm Summicron

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I'd like to throw my two cents into the pot concerning zugs viewpoints, though without all the 'artspeak'. Diversity is what makes art interesting.  The new wave of 'hard-hitting, in your face' art, which is the rave at the moment in many circles, is fine if you are looking discover yourself or investigate your psyche, but some people (actually a whole lot of people) just want art to be--ART.  Something pleasant to look at that gives you a good feeling.  To denigrate those feelings, will, I guarantee, ensure that you stay in the ranks of artists 'slaving' at a wage job.  People go to look at controversial art, but again and again, the art that sells is that which people can hang on their walls, and have their friends admire. Whose boundries does the Mona Lisa push, compared to, for example, one of the originators of in your face art, Andy Warhol?  In it's time the Mona Lisa was a pretty conventional style.  Which would I rather own if I could?  The value of Warhols work has taken a huge dive over the last few years, many questioning whether it is indeed, even art.  One of the tests of art is how well it stands the test of time.  Throughout history some 'new' art does indeed start new trends and goes on to greatness, but much ends up where it belongs, in the proverbial trash heap. And by the way, get used to the 'wage' job.  Only the creame of the crop in any artform (whether photography, music, painting, etc) go on to make their living off of their art.  Even da Vinci made his living as an architect, not his inventions and art. All the power to you if you can hold to your convictions and follow your dream.  But be prepared to let others follow theirs, or I predict a rude awakening for you in the future.

Bob

 

Photography : to me is the oppurtunity to capture reality on a piece of light sensative matearial. To record the reflections of our individual thoughts and our awareness of the world around us. Unlike other art forms ie painting and sculpture, whoes only reality is its presence.

In this the technological age  the ability to store information digitally is now, it is the industry and therefore this discussion seems pointless, if only for the purist among us. To me life is in a constant fluxtuation, the natural balance, one step forward and two steps back, the fors and against. It is human nature.

Recently a lab called multi-print, produced some digital prints on my behalf, and i have to say having not payed a small fortune for the servicves of a craftsman, they were without doubt the best prints I have had done to this date.

The problem people hold with the digital revoloution has no bearing on the modern world, it is sentimentality of a fast becoming by-gone age. We are merely in another period of transition, like our fore fathers the stone age man, bronze,and iron age, this is the technological age and we inturn will be surpassed. Certain images of our time are and will remain important, however it is important to maintain a level of perspective, that one mans art maybe nothing more than tomorrows "fish and chip paper". Many photographers share the passion, but few make the grade, and fewer are excepted as a point of reference among the academics. Sometimes perhaps a merely well lit visually remotely interesting image is whats it is and nothing more! Perhaps this is where the misunderstanding lies, photographers feel  that the use of digital cameras de-values their work, if so this is merely artistic arrogance and diluded self importance. The images contained on the LEICA WEBB SITE are beautifully produced, but hardly challenging or questioning our identity, the way we see, decisive or truelly resonating...........................TTFN

p.s in an ideal world I'd be producing images that mess with your head on a 10/8...................Zug.

Reply to Vickersshaun@hotmail .com

Editors Response:

Thank you for your views.  Let me first start out by saying that Leicagallery has a Digital section within our photo pages, but no body has participated in sharing their photos with us to date.  Although I agree with much of what you have to say, I do beleive that many pf the photos that have been submitted to the site are challenging.  Not all photos that are submitted are produced to challenge us.  Each photo has its own unique purpose, whther to share a beautoful moment in time or to make us aware of a certain emotion or event that has taken place.  I can't speak for our viewers, but I myself for one, look to photography for a number of reasons, one of which is escapism.  David & Mark Muench produce beautiful landscape photographs that take you away from life's everyday hassles and transport you to a time and place that allow to experience the beauty and tranquility that they have been fortunate enough to witness and thoughtfull enough to share with the rest of us.  Their are many ways in which we are challenged by each good photograph that is taken, whether it be technical, artistic or the documentary aspect of photography.  Being challenged means something different to each and every person that views the photograph.  Their perspective you will never see, you will only see your own.

I certainly welcome your photo submission that will 'mess with our heads'.  Some of us may need that and others may not want our heads messed with, but you will never know until you decide to share your work with a community of your peers.

Rebuttal:

Thank you Richard,

for your speedy reply, I realise of course you are right and that it is all about perspective, however i do feel that some photographers have a much stronger perspective than others. It may possibly be through use of metaphor, something which to many maybe nothing more than romanticism and difficult to grasp, however in my opinion when romanticism is the inability to except life's limitations and life is infinite then this seems nearer to the truth......a truth that is possibly best defined through photography.

Symbolism and metaphor are merely an extension of the big picture, when William Blake wrote the poem, excuse my ignorance, but the name escapes me, it is the something songs of innocence, any way he discribes how the lamb forgives the butchers knife and how the worm forgives the plough, of how some are born to sweet delight, some are born to sweet delight and some are born to endless night. Blake's use of tiny detail which in each individual line maybe perceived as metaphor , however in using line after line to reveal his awareness of the world around him, he shows that metaphor is truly an extension of a world which is hanging in a natural balance, solar, lunar, the food chain, the whole thing.

What is escapism? hyper realism, possibly verging on the sublime, you do not need to cross the globe to recognize that which truly resonates, photography whether or not taken with a digital or any other format, dose not interest me, it is souly about an image. what is classical and what is contempory? photography is still in its infancy, i believe as you said it is about perspective, but many choose the safety and influence of great pioneering photographers, this is because of the lack of understanding held within art, whether or not photography is truly seen as an art form! contempory artists the world over have been frowned upon as with the emperors new clothes. In the last few years of the turner prize surprisingly, Douglas Gordon, slowing down Hitchcock's psycho, Steve Mcqueen with his use of film in 2000 and Wolfgang Tillman's in 2001 with photography have all claimed the prize. It is interesting to know that all contempories are initially not excepted, because of our PERSPECTIVE, only later after much debate to be seen as ground breaking and even genius....... to date I am desperately trying to enroll either on an MA or equally looking for some sponsorship possibly through the arts council of england or else where, perhaps leica?, that would give me the opportunity to explore my perspective and give me the opportunity to share it with the world..My ideas are based on my studies and experiments within photography. on my understanding of the world around us, of our insecurities with change, we fear that which we don't understand and we live habitual lives based on relationships, we are a global consciousness......... If you know how to go about applying for sponsorship through leica I'd be grateful, I've been snapping now for 6-7 years,  studied at Bournemouth and Poole college of art and design, and then later Brighton University, I have worked for various publications and more recently have worked as a staff photographer in Bolivia and photographed a calender for an NGO organisation.  however I have yet to fulfil my ambition of producing my first book, a book of photographs detailing  the way which we live in this the technological age, but that also says something more of the way in which we think!

All it would take is an interview to discuss my ideas to sell them, but the difficulty lies in getting a foot in the door, in  the mean time i'm forced into conforming to be a wage slave like everyone else, unfortunately few artists are given the chance to persue their WORK.

ZUG...

As an amateur photographer and hobbyist I was skeptical of the Leica mythology.  After all, who can look at a photo and say, this was shot with a Leica or this was shot with a Canon? Or so I thought. Until I went to an estate auction and bought a Leica IIIf for $125 with the intent of selling it. But first I decided to shoot some film and try it out. The results practically brought tears to my eyes.  I am not selling this camera. This is the only camera I now use.  The rest have become mantel pieces.

There are cameras and there are Leicas. I have seen the light.

Dan Wilson

Waupaca, Wis.

Editor Response:

Dan, welcome to the club.  I believe that most of us have discovered Leica in this fashion and have felt the same way.  Pictures taken with a Leica can be distinguished from other photographs.

 

February 9, 2001

I think that photography is completely subjective.  There are two barriers the photographed scene must pass through in order to become a picture. 

One is the eye of the photographer, choosing where to go, which settings to choose, etc.  Then the film is exposed to the light captured, and by its nature will produce an image that is already different from the reality of the scene being photographed.  This all happens before any printing is done.

It doesn't bother me that the photograph is not a true representation of reality, since the very act of opening and closing the shutter changes the depiction.  Some of my favorite images have been mistakes and surprises.  At the same time, photographs which were well thought out and articulately scrutinized often do not provide the intended results. 

I personally do not use digital cameras and probably never will. However, using a computer to doctor a photograph has the same effect as pushing film, cross processing, or dodging and burning prints.  Using a computer is just easier, and unfortunately for the time being a fad. 

One of the things I enjoy most about still photography is the possibility of seeing just a very thin slice of an instant.  The power of the still image is that you realize that this photo is only a brief moment in time, and yet it can still evoke emotion.  The difference I think is that there are no distractions.  The still shot is all you see.  Whereas in a film or video, you see all of these images back to back, with less time to pick out one.

The aspect of time in motion vs. time frozen will alter the way we see things too. 

Tim Wagner

wagner@alphavax.co

Editor Response:

Tim, I agree with your viewpoints.  I do believe however that the use of computers in photography is not just a fad.  I also believe that the current digital evolution will attract more people into the art of photography.  Some of these people will venture into film cameras and eventually to Leica.  A reverse evolution of sorts.  I agree with your statement about photograhs evoking emotion, but I will ad that photographs also invoke a sense of time and place, and as the photogrpher of the image will actually take me back to that exact day and location and I will remember the sensory feelings, visions, people and fragrances of that location.  A photograph is a time machine that takes you back into time.  Imagine how Ansel Adams felt when relecting back to Moonrise?  I am sure that the picture meant more to him than anyone of its viewers.  This makes photography much more powerfull than most realize.  Thats why I take pictures for myself first, and if someone appreciates the qualities of one of my photographs I feel an added sense of accomplishment.

February 9, 2001

...Meantime, a few more thoughts re Leica. Please feel free to add them to your website if you wish.

Leica: outrageous price! Rubbish! Compare a computer. Ho long willthat last before it is out of date? Enough said.

Leica: non-obselesence. I read one review: Leica will still be going when Mars has been colonised and fossil fuel supplies exhausted. Let's hope we still have film.

Leica: outmoded! How may modes do you need? Setting shutter speed and aperture is no more difficult than programming auto functions on an LCD. In fact, it's easier. Focusing is a cinch too, specially in low light.

Leica: so few lenses! Sure, for some photography (macro, sports,wildlife) a rangefinder is not the best choice; otherwise 50mm is surprisingly useful for all sorts of subjects. You just need to think more about composition. Which makes you think harder. (And, of course, you can choose anything from 12mm to 135mm, or more if you use the old Visoflex)

Leica: so what's so special about the lenses?! Try them and see.Most areexcellent at full aperture. They really do have a different look. As someone put it in a review: "sharp, but not bitingly so, as if the colours 'glow'; the subject simply stands out from the background." Compare with other lenses from other manufacturers. Some might give better resolution of test charts (maybe, though questionable) but why photograph test charts instead of the real world? Film makes a difference, but postcard prints will not give you the full picture. Try enlargements, slides, or B+W.

Leica: such awkward film loading! Yes, it's slow. But it teaches you patience.  Not a bad thing in today's world. Once film is loaded, delay between pressing shutter and actual exposure is less than an SLR.

Leica: the myth! The myth is that modern technology is always better. It isn't. Compare real pictures taken 50 years ago by Henri Cartier Bresson or Ansel Adams. Once again, enough said.

Happy shooting!

David Killick

I agree with you on digital manipulation of a photo.When I print B&W in the darkroom with burning or dodging maybe a little toning are we not all a little guilty of altering what the camera sees!

Good morning.... My name is Scott.  I live and work in Fresno, 

Ca. as a professional photographer.  I am fifty-three years old and have been involved in serious photography since graduation ( M.S. Zoology ...no jobs there! ).  With over thirty years experience in the classic field of photography I have a bone to pick with those who believe digital is real photography. By definiton:   Photo - Graphos: light writing.

To me, and other zealots of like persuasion, the act of writing, by light to film and writing by light to paper..is the cumulative process we call photography. Didgitists beware!, you are only halfway there with image capture on a highly refined piece of sand !  Just like good sex you need to consumate the interaction...finish by writing , with light, to paper or ? ( choose your substrate ) .  I have no problem with those artists who can effectively use the new medium to convey their vision.  In fact I welcome the new direction this gives to art.  Capture and retrieval of images for the sake of filing, great, no problem.  Just don't call it what it isn't. 

"nuf 

said"

Hello:

I have been an avis photographer for the last 20 years, but I am new to the Leica "M". I just

stumbled across your site while trying to educate myself on a newly acquired Leica system. I want

to congratulate on assembling a fantastic website!

Thanks,

Jack

 

Being a user of both Leica M and R equipment , I am constantly looking for books, periodicals and web

sites where the results of these wonderful cameras can be found. The photographs submitted by the

photographers in the "Photos" section are beautifully done and truly inspiring. Thank you for a great web

site. I will visit often. 

Best regards, 

Richard Kamp 

 

From: Alan White:

Richard, I agree with you about representation. A perfect example is your Monument which is a great, straight photo.

However isn't it nice that one can use a film like Agfa Optima or  Fuji Velvia on flowers for example to convey the very feeling you experience when a riot of color knocks your socks off. Like you I don't believe in zappiness just for its own sake. There must be a reason for it. I like your photos very

much. - Alan White whitesalb@prodigy.net

 

Editors Response:

Alan, there is nothing wrong with using Fuji Velvia, I also use this film for certain subjects.  Sometimes the vivid colors we see with our eyes are not captured on film to the extent in which we feel the subject is accurately saturated/rendered (especially when diluted in printing enlargements), in this case Velvia is a good choice.  On the other hand, oversaturation can cause a decrease in tonal smoothness which is equally important in good photographs.  Try taking pictures of Red Roses.  An oversaturated film will render big blobs of red, where as a different film will render the subtle differences in tone faithfully and provide a nicer more accurate image (I have first hand knowledge of this mistake).

After shooting with Velvia for a long time now, I am now starting to see why people liked Kodachrome so much.  The tone and fauthful color rendition is hard to beat (like whites and skin tones).  Even the new Provia 100 seems to be a good alternative and I am shooting more with this film now for color slide projection along with other Kodak/Fuji films.

It just seems to me that everyone is concerned with trying to make over-the-top photos instead of natural looking pictures.  The digital renditions that some people produce can be especially irritating.  Vivid is Ok, but oversaturation can be an eyesore.  All of the photo magazines that are on our newstands seem to condone and encourage this style of photography and I feel that it's high time someone provides photographers with an alternative viewpoint in the style of the masters (Stieglitz, Weston, Adams's etc..) and the F64 club.  Awareness is what I am trying to provide.

>>>>>>Get an M6, a 35mm Summicron and a 90mm Elmarit.  Forget all of the auto-this and Auto-that equipment.  Advice from a wise old man.  Take it, it' s the best advice you are likely to receive on this planet and you will be mad as hell when you find this to be true 10-20 years from now and you passed it up.<<<<<<<

Very true.  I wanted a Leica M 15 years ago and passed it up because of the cost and just bought one.  The quality of the images is there and the equipment is worth the money.

Thanks for your web site.

DAVID ENZEL

Chevy Chase, Maryland